. in that treaty the u.s. government says the government of the united states of america is not in any sense founded on the christian religion. there are also courses approved vision for the total separation of church and state in the founding doctrine, correct? >> no, i don't think the total separation of church and state is in the bible, there's total disebb stabment, emerges in the 19th century. >> wer they dominantly christian, as if it was not founded as a nation free of any required state religion? >> no, i -- no, i -- this -- >> therefo, it was a secular nation, as they saw it, and they wanted it that way. >> i think you have to talk about whether it's by law or by culture. and i think most evebody would have understood early on that by law, the nation was secular, but by choice, the nation was -- in other words, its people were christians and there's always been that dynamic, people have always understood there's a tension there between a population that's largely christian but uses its freedom to choose christiity and the laws that say go ahead ande whatever religion you want to be.